For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. Should the explanation in Genesis on how God created plants before the sun affect the understanding of creation? I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. And that is why God heeded the prayer of the land. It is tainted.". Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that God punishes people for their own iniquity. This famine has been going on for three years, year after year. "No, we don't do things like that in Israel. Completely ignoring God's explicit command to spare the Gibeonites, Saul decreed it was time to remove them completely by exterminating them. Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. 3:6: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. If you read Psalm 51 it is very clear that he understood his own makeup. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." He simply folded, giving the Gibeonites everything they wanted. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. This does not make any sense. God revealed that this calamity happened because of "Saul and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites ." CONFLICT OF THE AGES ARTICLES There is no want to those who fear Him. He went after a people that God did not want exterminated anymore. Share In Rizpahs case, her husband, King Saul, broke his promise that the Israelites would spare the Gibeonites in battle; he ordered the Israelites to annihilate them. He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. And when Saul saw any strong man or any valiant man, he took him for himself. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. THE STORY OF JOSEPH - WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. He committed colossal sins that whole nations would be held in contempt for. 2. Webdid mika hakkinen win a championship; cosmic casino no deposit bonus 2022; natwest financial calendar; south bay christmas events; when did saul slew the gibeonites. He just let the natural cycles take their course. If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. From the time of Joshua, throughout the long period of the Judges, the very presence of these deceitful people had not only been a thorn in the side of the Israelis; their position in the land was a dividing wedge that separated southern Judah from the rest of the Kingdom. Now the Gibeonites were not of the people of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites. The cities of refuge were designed (among other things) to stop and prevent these feuds from happening. September 01 2013 Then they went back and took Ai. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. or who shall stand in his holy place? And these men, they need to be buried. The last time Saul did swear not to kill David, Saul swore "by YHWH" not to kill david he broke it many times over since. These are the two hints. He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. This is interesting. We cannot let them linger around. persecuted and killed the Gibeonites men in a covenant relationship with Israel who served at the tabernacle. The choice by Adam and Eve in the garden was a sin, and they paid for it through death. When did Saul kill these Gibeonites? Report, September 02 2013 VERSE 2. . This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." And those two are questionable. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. SERIES INTRODUCTION Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. The Gibeonites decided on a different strategy. Fifty years ago was 1957. The Gibeonites have the dubious distinction of having duped Joshua and the elders of Israel. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. He was not really on the ball like he should have been. I think he was looking at Adonijah and Solomon, and seeing the positioning for the throne, and he just wanted to throw up his handsflee like some bird (Psalm 139). That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). But the consequences of their sinswhat it means to us; what happened because of their sinstill affects us today. He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. We don't hear much of the Gibeonites again until the reign of King Saul. During Davids reign, the people of Gibeon demanded that all of Sauls children be put to death so as to atone for a severe famine. In addition, his own soldiers had to tell him, "David, you just don't have it anymore. Saul agreed, and off he went. Then they replied, It was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in Israel. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. God is warning here that sin has consequences. Berean Literal Bible Acts 13:21. Therefore, the world is full of sintheir own sin. Should we make a covenant with them? LAMECH: FALL OUT FROM POLYGAMY; II Samuel 21:7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. II Samuel 21:14 So they performed all that the king commanded. Why were genealogies so important to Israel? How much food did Jesus produce? They did not ask, "God, what should we do to these people, the Gibeonites? Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. (Now the Gibeonites were not Israelites, but a remnant of the Amorites. It would have been the answer. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. Therefore, there was a different system of justice than what the Gentiles were used to. Joshua 9:25-27 "And now, here we are, in your hands; do with us as it seems good and right to do to us." This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. The consequences are not the guilt. We do not know when it happened. Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. And the Lord said, "There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. Other Translations for 2 Samuel 21:1 Discussion for 2 Samuel 21 View All II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the L ORD. Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death [he cannot buy his way out]. . Therefore, one of the first things that Joshua and the Israelites do is they allow a big problem to linger in their midst. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. Report. As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. and for his bloody house. They were a group of Amorites. There was a great deal of turmoil in Israel leading up to this time. Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. Or as the Gibeonites said Saul consumed them and tried to destroy them a people Israel had entered into a covenant with 400 years earlier. WebThe designation Nethinim is derived from the Hebrew verb natan ("to give over"), which can mean devoting someone to cultic service. Think of it as if it were today. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. Joshua 9:3-6 But when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily [remember that], and went and pretended to be ambassadors. It is very clear, and very simplejust two little verses. WebThe alliance with the Gibeonites lasted for centuries, until Saul - in his zeal (21, 2) - decided that the ancient covenant was no longer binding. You cannot tell. 20, and still another between Saul and David in 1 Samuel 24. 5. If you look at a map in the back of your Bible which has something to do with the conquest of Israel, you will see that Gilgal is right over the Jordan River, just on the eastern side of the land. A snare is a trap. So, he spared Agag, and he spared a lot of the good stuff. II Samuel 21:8-9 So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. He was distracted. If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. Who are the twenty four elders that John foresaw? So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. This was a long time ago. The Israelites had taken an oath concerning them, but in his zeal for Israel and Judah, Saul had sought to kill them.) The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. The Gibeonites deceived Israel, but God's people had really deceived themselves. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.". Because David had been good friends with Jonathan, he at first allowed all of Sauls family to continue to live peaceably in the land. He enslaved them all, and made them wood cutters and menial laborers at the Tabernacle. Is that what happened?" What have they done? Their special, if dishonest, dealings with the leaders of Israel gained them a notoriety that most of the tribes and clans of the ancient Mid-East never attained. Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. It cut us off from God. Based on this principle, I think we can be confident that justice was carried out in this very nasty incident, even though we are not told all the details of what happened. It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. WebWe will attack Gibeon, because they have made peace with Joshua and the Israelites." They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. This indicates that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this situation was resolved by David. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. This is in the second commandment. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. Vote Up The time had passed. There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. And we are supposed to be ready. What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. Their representatives were not up front with the Israeli leaders. There is no record in the Bible of Saul killing Gibeonites. The historical narrative of King David is drawing to a close. Then David went and took the bones of Saul, and the bones of Jonathan his son, from the men of Jabesh Gilead who had stolen them from the street of Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them up, after the Philistines had struck down Saul in Gilboa. WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." How many died in sicknesses? Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. It won't do anybody any good lying here dead. How long was the average lifespan at the time? And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. WebSaul slew the Gibeonites, not simply as the son of Kish, but as the king of Israel, and therefore involved all Israel with him in the violation of the national oath; and hence, until the evil should be put away by the execution of the immediate offender or his representatives, all Israel must suffer. WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. He says to watchbe aware, be awake, be vigilant; know what your spiritual state is. ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. They had a more bloody and violent systemwhich often led to blood feuds that may not ever end until a whole family or generation was gone. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] But talk about your flawed heroes! BATTLE AGAINST ENVY AND JEALOUSY They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. And David sought the face of the Lord. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. And then King David inquired of the Lord. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". That the famine continued indicates God displeasure with David's decision and inner motives. Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. That generation had begun to pass. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. . And Samuel says, "See? The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. So, he kept his own covenant, but he did not go any further to figure out from God's law to know what should be done in this situation. And it would have been done quickly and easily. What is the meaning of the parable of the rich man and his manager? WebWhen Sauls agents came up, she pretended that David was ill and placed a household idol and a net of goats hair in his bed, as if her husband were still lying there (vv. A little further down, we read: II Samuel 21:2 . II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Saul became a bit strange in the head after this, if you will remember. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. Only after three days did they discover that their "far-distant" allies were really next-door neighbors! No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of One of them toward the end of this list is King David. ", God answered immediately, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. Why did God allow the Gibeonites to put to death seven of Sauls sons? Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. The second is at the end of verse 2, that "Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for Israel and Judah." Please ensure your answer MEETS all our guidelines. This is pretty clear. What should we get out of this? The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a The Gibeonites remained enemies and aliens to the household of God forever after. Think about it. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." That is basically how it was. You are no longer fit to be king." Another thing that God said to do was not done. Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. He was the king. And, that was that. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Evidently, he thought that he could win back his kingdom if he zealously did God's will. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. There were not very many of them left. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." Guilt for sin is not hereditary. It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. In verse 7 we see the only thing in the entire situation that was any good at all. They made their dust-covered clothes to look worn and ragged as if they had been on the road for many days, even months. This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. He attempted the genocide of Is there something I'm missing? Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. There was no negotiation; there was no calling them on anything. Therefore, they arrive in the camp of Israel, and say, "Where's your leader? For a relatively small group the Gibeonites drove a hard bargain and soon it was a done deal. They engaged in battle, and Israel won, but the people and king Saul said, "Look at all this nice livestock! 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